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标题: [讨论&话题] 官方蓝贴【暗黑3技能树不是天赋树】 [打印本页]

作者: 4126    时间: 2009-4-11 14:39     标题: 官方蓝贴【暗黑3技能树不是天赋树】

说真的,第一次看到这个,第一反应就是WOW天赋树,虽然又看到新新闻,但是还是觉得有点遗憾。后面分析了下,觉得非常不对,因为我从没看到过技能学习方面的东西,难道这个就是技能,而不是WOW中的天赋树,天赋树是对技能的加强,而暗黑3中就是技能+天赋一起,其实这样说完全不对。因为这个就是D3自己的树。具体怎么叫,暂时就叫技能树,有了他,不用每次升级后都回城找人学习技能,直接点技能点就可以了,这个同D2的做法基本一样,但是在D2基础上改进非常大。下面看看BN上面的原话:
原文
Bashiok:
I should stress that what everyone was allowed to see was a behind the scenes glimpse at where the UI is now. BlizzCast specifically serves that purpose, and by showing unfinished work we take the risk of people critiquing our work before it's done. To that same effect though it's an amazing way of getting feedback, but that doesn't change that it should be understood to be unfinished work. Moving on...

The Diablo III skill tree is a skill tree and not a talent tree because you learn all of your skills from it.

You aren't given new abilities every other level from a trainer. There's no expectation that you'll have some specific ability at some level. There's no role requirements that dictate where you have to spend points to hurt monsters. The points you spend determine exactly how the character is built, how it functions, and what it's able to do.

So, people are comparing the trees for a few reasons and using these reasons as negatives. I'll try to cover them all.

1. "They look similar." Yes, they do. They're both downward expanding trees, they both have icons that you can spend points in, they both have arrows that determine expansion into other skills.

These were all features also in the Diablo II trees.

2. "It's unoriginal." I agree. It's only after 10 (?) or so working concepts of various other skill tree designs that we were able to arrive at the conclusion that this is a system that works and achieves the goals that we want to achieve (we showed those failed designs at BlizzCon btw). There's no point in trying to put in something new and complex just for the sake of originality. When people play the game will they remember that it's not new, or that it's not fun?

I want to heavily stress again on this point that the skill trees are not finished, we're still in the process of heavy iteration and experimentation.

3. "Point requirements to advance down the tree is lame." One of the main problems with the Diablo II trees was point hoarding, which was the act of holding on to all of your points until you are able to reach a skill you want to put points into. This may not be an issue to some players just because it's so easily dismissed as 'part of the game', but from a designer perspective it's a huge failure. You are giving the player a reward and they are hoarding those rewards because they have nothing enticing to spend them on. This was attempted to be remedied through a patch by introducing synergies, unfortunately they caused their own issues. World of Warcraft looking at the Diablo II trees for inspiration saw this flaw but took a different approach in solving it, instead implementing a point requirement to advance down the tree. The player now has to spend points to advance, and with that comes the ability to provide more impacting and meaningful places to spend them.

4. "Cookie cutter builds!" Again these are skill trees, not talent trees. Every single ability you can cast/use is learned through spending points in the tree. This allows, in comparison, for a huge amount of customization. Now, that doesn't escape the truth that there will always be builds considered to be the best, but that's more an issue of balance, not skill tree layout design.

Also on that point, and I've said it before, character customization is a core design goal of the game. It's one of a few, and that means that we're not going to release the game unless we're happy with the amount of customization available.

So, hopefully that touches on most of the main points being used over and over again as a reason to hate the skill tree. Once again I want to ask that you approach the game with a question rather than a statement. If you follow up "I don't like this" with "I wonder why they decided to do it that way" then we can have a conversation. If you're just making a statement the best I can do is read it. There's no way for me to comfortably reply to a post that has no intention of learning about the game.
Bashiok:
Ok, well, quickly - it's confusing for players, it forces us to limit skill diversity/item attributes, and the amount and type of customization it offers is neither important nor sexy. So we take away stat spending, make items have more and cooler stats, know stat minimums at a given level which allow spell diversity/balance, and then introduce new customization systems that are actually fun and engaging in creating a unique character.
Bashiok:
Potentially. It hasn't been decided. The point caps of various skills is also undecided, although they're likely to vary from skill to skill.
Bashiok:
It hasn't been decided if gear will provide +skill stats. I'd say it's probably more likely that if items were to include stats that augment skills, that they would add specific things to skills instead of just adding more points into them. But nothing has been decided.

翻译:
      自BlizzCast 8之后(第8期暴雪广播,论坛有翻译),BN上就不断有人指责《暗黑破坏神3》做得太像《魔兽世界》,而背离了《暗黑破坏神2》创造的种种经典。而近日,讨论的焦点集中在了《暗黑破坏神3》的技能树上。继昨天Bashiok明确指出《暗黑破坏神3》的“技能树”不同于《魔兽世界》的“天赋树”之后,对于网友的争论,今天又作出了以下回应:
  我想强调一下,现在这里的每个人看到的只是我们所作的界面工作的一点皮毛。BlizzCast基本上就是为了向你们展示一些还未完成的工作,当然我们也明白这些半成品肯定会招来各种批判的声音。诚然,通过这种方式我们能得到一些可贵的反馈和意见,但请你们理解这些仅仅是半成品而已。那么继续...
  暗黑破坏神的技能树,是货真价实的“技能树”,而不是“天赋树”什么的,你所有的技能都将来源于这技能树。
  你不会每升一级就可以去找训练师学个新技能。也不用想着升到某些级别后会获得什么特殊技能。当然也不会说某些职业只有学了某几个技能才好打怪。如何加技能点决定了你的角色成长,你的角色怎么用、能做到什么,完全取决于此。
  那么,有人总是喜欢拿这两种“树”在比,然后觉得D3的技能树如何如如何不好。在此我就针对这些说一说。
  1、“它们看起来很像。”是的,它们的确很相似。它们都是向下扩展的“树”,它们都有可以让你消耗点数升级的图标,它们都有箭头标明技能间的从属关系。
  这些东西D2的技能树中都有。
  2、“这不是原创的。”我同意。在尝试过十多种不同的设计方案后,我们得出的结论是这个(树型)系统是唯一能有效达成我们的目标的系统(顺便一说,我们有在BlizzCon上展示之前那些失败的方案)。这里没有必要为了所谓的“原创性”而硬是搞一个全新的东西出来。自己想想,当你玩的时候你在意的是什么?难道是“原创性”?你关心的是是否好玩吧。
  这里我再次强调,技能树还没完成。我们还在对其反复修改并进行大量的试验
  3、“更高级的技能需要消耗了一定点数才能开启,这很渣。”D2的技能树系统有个很严重的缺陷就是留点问题。玩家会一直留着技能点不用,直到他们开启了某个他们想要的技能后,就把点都塞进去。这对于一些玩家来说不是问题,他们甚至认为这就是游戏的一种玩法。但是在游戏设计人员看来,这完全是巨大的败笔。你给玩家提供了奖励,但是玩家们却都收着不用,因为用了也没啥好处。我们曾经试图通过在补丁中加入“技能加成”系统来弥补这一缺陷,但不幸的是这方法本身也有问题。魔兽世界的天赋树灵感来源于D2的技能树系统。他们很明白D2系统的缺陷,于是采用了一种不同的方式来避免其出现:你一定要在“树”的前一级中点够了一定的点数后,才能开启下一级的东西。如此玩家就必须用掉一些点数才能继续升级,加点也趋于合理。
  4、“又滥又垃圾的培养路线!”再说一次,这是技能树,而不是天赋树。任何一个你能施放/使用的技能都是通过在那“树”上加点得来的。(与天赋树)相比之下这就提供了高得多的加点自由度。不可否认的是总会有些培养路线更好,但那就是平衡性的问题了,和技能树的外观问题就搭不上边了。
  之前我就多次强调,角色培养自由度是我们设计这个游戏的核心理念之一。这也意味着,在角色培养自由度方面没做到我们满意之前,是不会发布游戏的。
  那么希望这段时间以来你们不厌其烦的引用来攻击D3技能树的几个理由,我在此都已经涵盖到了。我请你们明白,看待一款游戏,最好是抱持探究之心,而不是先入为主。如果你们说“我很好奇他们为什么要那样设计”,而不是“我不喜欢这个”,那么我们才有话可谈。如果你们仅仅是说这个如何如何,那么我能做的大不了就是看看罢了。对于那些根本不是想了解这游戏的某些言论,我没理由也没心情回复。

  之后,对于“培养自由度”这一点,有网友又提出,既然追求个性化,为何却取消了自由加属性点的功能,而是在角色升级时自动获得提升?
对此,Bashiok如是说。
  那么好,简单的说-这种加点方式会让玩家不知所措,而我们也不得不为了平衡而给技能种类和物品属性设限。这样的加点系统并不能真正带来多少培养自由度,不中看也不中用。所以我们把属性加点系统整个拿掉,然后给物品附加上更多犀利的属性,针对等级调整好使用技能的属性要求,然后放进一个真正能让你培养出独特的角色的系统。
  不久之后又有网友就需要在前一等级中用掉多少点才能开启下一级提出了疑问,有网友指出在BlizzCon的试玩demo中,角色升到5级之后就可以自由升级第二级的技能,而另外一位网友则指出这只是demo为了节省玩家时间而设置的(BlizzCon等活动中每位玩家只有10~15分钟的试玩时间),真正的游戏当中还是会有类似WoW那样的加点限制。Bashiok基本同意了这一说法。
  很可能是这样。现在还没定下来。而每个技能可以升级的点数也还没确定,最后可能不同的技能会有不同的点数可以加。
  
  随后网友提出是否会有装备对技能的加成,从而使某个技能能通过特定的装备达到超过加点限制的等级。对此Bashiok也有说法。
  关于装备是否能提供技能加成,这个也还没定下来。如果要我说,我觉得更有可能的是,使用对技能有加成的装备会给技能添加某些特殊效果,而不是单纯的提高技能等级而已。不过这些都还说不准的。




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